River City Flyers *Elections*

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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby irwinje on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:28 pm

ShaneC wrote:How about posting where the money goes we put into the club and why we put it there.
If I rember right the last RCF event at quail the RCf didnt even resurve a shelter.........boy that looks good for us in the parks eyes dont it.
Many of us out here take the time to keep the park in shape like trimming weeds and cleaning the pads. We take the time to make paths to walk on when it muddy. Many of us take the time to help the new people that are starting to play..........like giving away many disc to people, showing them the course. Now I am sure this goes on out there too in many ways but dont think that we dont do it either.
Our biggest complaint was no love from the club.........hell whens the last time any board members even came out here to intoduce them selves?


When I was elected as president last year, I came out to Quail to bring the merch and introduce myself around. I enjoyed myself so I joined the league out there, Sarah was my partner. We didn't shoot very well, and my work schedule has since kept me from joining any Tuesday league (on this side of the river or other) I have made a point to get to Quail with the merch for league payout and I try to meet as many people as I can while there. I've always tried to be as helpful and informative as I could while I was there.
But I haven't had a chance to meet everyone, and god knows I probably have not been able to answer everyone's questions.
Where does teh $20 go?
Course Improvements
Scorecards
Bag Tags
Club Stamped discs
Merchandise
Administrative Responsibilities (paperwork/ membership aplications/tournament flyers/etc)
All money collected at tournaments and from membership goes into a general fund. Again, we don't have a team of accountants on staff. We have a volunteer treasurer, that also has a day job.
Time to get serious about having fun
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby Jorge on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:31 pm

Jeff,

I think a lot of the concerns from the St Charles County people come from a lack of communication, transparency, ignorance, knowledge of club activities or whatever you want to call it. I think if all of the people knew the details as you laid them out before this thread got to the point where it is, it would aid in some of the confusion. It's definitely the responsibility of the club to disclose/inform it's members of it's agreements with the parks department, fiscal information, etc. and not the responsibility of a course captain or of "people in the know" to pass this information on to other club members verbally because of the possibility of confusion or ignorance (we have all played the telephone game as a kid and know how things get mixed up).

What would help is the club posting on its website its constitution, contractual agreements with parks departments, sponsors, etc., fiscal/budget information, and other important information to further avoid confusion/miscommunication and more importantly for full disclosure amongst the club's members.

I am assuming that all of this information exists and can be posted somewhere on here on a locked thread or better yet a link to a .pdf so that none of this information can be changed.

As for me, as if anyone really cares, I will not be renewing my RCF tag this year for the first time since I started playing. I want to help out in the St. Charles County area with what ever future courses, clubs, etc. that will be formed. This is not a shot to the RCF, but instead a reminder that the sport is growing so quickly that it would do the sport an injustice to spread the help so thinly amongst the existing courses. I think it’s good that some people want to work or concentrate on one specific course or area so that things have a better chance to get accomplished. I understand that absolutely none of that has to do with not being in the RCF, but I would rather donate my money and time to advance the sport in St. Charles County as opposed to the whole Greater St. Louis Area. I haven't spent nearly as much time helping out as others, but I have donated a decent amount of time and money already and have a vested interest in that course as well as future ones in St. Charles County.

Also, emails calling people out and telling them to f-off makes people question what is really going on behind the scenes. It's a shame that one or a few people have to ruin things for all of the rest of you who are working hard and volunteering your time to make the club the best it is.

Good luck with the club.

BTW - I had mentioned to Andy before one of your meetings to charge non-RCF members an extra $5 for any tournament to both boost membership and revenue. I will have no problem what so ever paying extra for any tournament I play in and I think that this is a great idea that should be instituted after the championships.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby Working Stiff on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:06 pm

irwinje wrote:Additionally, typically the board meetings have not been "open to the public." Because, before I was involved with the club, they had multiple problems with that. If they are left open, it open the possibility of a "mob mentality" to take over. It was decided, before I was involved, that the meetings would be more productive if they were limited to board members and course captains. For all the members out there that have ideas of how to improve the club/course/events we have this message board so we can get member's opinions and discuss them in the board meetings.
Bit of a drift, but the "mob mentality" was due to the bad bylaws of the old St. Louis Disc Golf Club. When something came up in a meeting, it did not have to be tabled until the next meeting for a vote. It could be presented and voted on in the same meeting. Also, the vote was equal by every member present. A Club Officer's vote had no more weight than anyone else. So you could come up with a crazy idea and pack the meeting with your friends, make a proposal that wasn't even on the agenda and have it approved by all your buddies that showed up. The next month when everyone was gone, we would vote to revrese the decision. Fun and games. It was a huge waste of time.

When Ron Marshall tried to update the SLDGC bylaws so that the meetings would be under control, he ran head to head with a certain local promoter who liked to be able to fill the meetings with his buddies. Disc golf has always been a player-run sport, and you get most of your respect from how you perform on the course. Since the local promoter was a very good pro player and Ron was a nobody AM, most people sided with the local promoter, nothing changed and the meetings remained pointless.

Open meetings can be done, but you have to have better control of the meeting than we did with the SLDGC. Just by changing the vote to a representative democracy where the Board Memebers are votes that count takes away the incentive to pack a meeting with your buddies. I think the fear of open meetings comes from old Board Members who remember the SLDGC days and don't want to go back to that. However, I think you can open the meetings if you follow Robert's Rules of Order and have the organizational bylaws to support them.
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River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby emptv on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:12 pm

Disc up Andy,
I guess your name gets dragged into this for 2 main reasons, first of all, by default you are the most visible member from the St. Charles area. Secondly, and IMHO, there is a envy factor by some because of how great everything that you have a hand in runs. Many others would like to have the leadership and people skills that you always show and since they don't have those skills, all they have left to do is try and drag you into the mud with them.
I just want to give a big thank you to everyone that helps out to promote and move this sport forward in any way that you do it. It makes it that much more fun to play.

8-)
Fly long & prosper!
Bruce C.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Wow all I had to do was get on here and run my mouth a little bit and look what happends............more info about the club than I bet anyone has ever seen. Why is it that I had to pick a fight just so we could learn this stuff?
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby irwinje on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:27 pm

the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Of course the wheel that does nothing but complain isolates themselves and pisses people off, so moderation is the key. It is the responsibility of everyone that is "in the know" to be an ambasador of this club and sport. All course board members (past and present) and course captains have an obligation to the club/sport to be an ambasador for us. I cannot sit down with all 300-400 members and give them every little detail about what and why we do what we do. However, when people come to board members and course captains and ask why something is the way it is, I think they have an obligation to tell them the truth about it, even if they disagree with the decision.
I think this is why there are so many grumblings coming from that side of the river. The club's liasion is not doing a very good job creating intereest and support of the "local" club. Then again, what do I know? I'm just the idiot that gets blamed for every problem in St. Louis disc golf. Honestly though, if I had that kind of power, I wouldn't squander it at the helm of a volunteer organization. I'd get paid for it!
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby magic on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:32 pm

irwinje wrote:I can appreciate freedom of speech.


Is this really the case or are any of my posts that you disagree with going to be deleted as usual. You've called me out one too many times on a public board for me to sit back quietly.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby clane on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:45 pm

It seems to me that there are a lot of people who are interested in growing the sport, and making our organization better, but in a lot of cases have very little information, and end up frustrated, with nothing accomplished. I had no idea why the meetings were not open, but as soon as I read about what was going on, my first thought was Robert's Rules of Order would end a lot of the problems.

I know I said that I wanted to be up for a position on the board, but regardless I am stepping up to do something. Aside from the usual "leave the place better than you find it", what can I do? This seems to be a problem, for me at least that things are not clear what the direction the club is going and what we can do to help move things in that direction. (It's entirely possible that some one has said exactly what is needed and I wasn't paying attention, but...) Like I said before I want to help.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:55 pm

If all I have to complain about is not feeling love over here in St. Chuck and that events start late it seems like very little in the big picture of things.............so how can that piss anyone off?

O my god 2 complaints wtf...............i am mad now HAHAHA
really Jeff i think the club does a good job but if your gonna get pissy about 2 complaints then I wont be in RCF any more.

Magic you rule!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby irwinje on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:56 pm

Shane, I meant that generally speaking, so please don't take personal offense.
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