???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

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???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby bean928 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:03 am

What decides where and what tourney you play? This doesnt included bc I got off or had free time. What attracts you to them? Payouts? Competition? Course? Players pack? Ctps? Ace pool? Etc. If its more than one whats more important?.......
What have been some of your favorite tourneys and why?
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Re: ????

Postby sailstraightlongtrue on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:31 pm

Ok, you aasked......

Being relatively new to the disc golf scene, the typical tournament format & skill of players is somewhat intimidating for the newbe......must be otherwise you would be selling out tournaments with almost 500 members registered. Maybe a couple of beginner/intermediate tournaments mixed in during the year would help facilitate novice players to be more comfortable with tournament play (formats, rules, etc.) - half day format might even be considered. Might also be helpful to offer player development clinics before the rounds start and also at the lunch break.......technique & course strategy elements.

Could be lower cost events because this level of player may not be all that interested in placement or payouts versus skill development.
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Re: ????

Postby Genn on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:05 pm

As a relatively new player as well, my answer would be fairness. I think the River City Ratings are great. I think it comes as close as one can reasonably get to create fair divisions. If I'm going to play a tournament, I want to play against my peer skill group, not donate to obviously better players.

Unless created for individual divisions, CTPs and an ace pool don't mean a whole lot to me...historically, that's just been me donating more money to better players. I like the idea of a players pack, but when it comes down to it I really don't care about the collection aspect of a custom stamped disc nor am I likely to make use of any players pack disc. A t-shirt?...that's great. I'd much rather have that or a voucher in place of a disc.
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Re: ????

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:22 pm

I really like a LOT about what Genn and sailstraightlongtrue said above.

I agree that even the word "tournament" is very intimidating to the recreational and new player. In fact, that exact same intimidation is the single most common reason I'm given against joining the club when I ask a random player about joining while I'm out on the course. It goes something generally like, "Oh, I just play for fun, I'm not very good and I'm not interested in playing tournaments." Seems to me that we need some phrasing changes or a major shift in the paradigm of what it means to "join a sporting club".

I do agree that there should be a more diligent use of the River City Ratings to flight players at events. The concept of having division based CTP's is also brilliant. Thanks for mentioning both Genn.

I would love to be able to make it my personal mission in 2014 to see that several beginners/recreational level tournaments are held in our area. We obviously have a larger player base in St. Louis who fall into that category than those who would be playing in Open, Am. or Int.. Unfortunately, I've got way too much to be responsible for in regards to the club to be able to take on that mission.

What I would L.O.V.E. to see is someone who plays with and understands the new and recreational player that would be willing to volunteer the time to make these more newbie friendly events a reality. I know for a fact that the club would totally support you in any way needed. Seriously, if you (and this means anyone) would like to step up, I will absolutely support and advocate for you. Sometimes, all it takes is one person to step up... and others will follow.
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby Mike_R on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:15 pm

bean928 wrote:What decides where and what tourney you play? This doesnt included bc I got off or had free time. What attracts you to them? Payouts? Competition? Course? Players pack? Ctps? Ace pool? Etc. If its more than one whats more important?.......
What have been some of your favorite tourneys and why?

This is an interesting question.

I haven't played any tournaments since last October, but I guess these are the things I consider when looking at tournaments

* Course means a lot. We all have our favorites.

* Cost is more important than payout.
* Seeing higher costs justified because of free beer is a negative.

* Having lunch available as an option is a plus.
* Requiring lunch as part of the entry fee is a negative. (I do however understand that fancy lunches require an accurate headcount, so there are times it needs to be built into the entry fee)

* Charity tournaments for food pantries is a plus
* Charity tournaments requiring extra cash is a negative. (Sorry, I already have charities that I donate to.)

* CTPs are not a factor. To cater to rec and intermediate, I would suggest a mix of raffles to go with the CTPs.
* Player's packs mean a lot. This is how I get exposed to equipment I wouldn't normally consider trying.

* Club membership drive tournaments are a plus. I want to support the different clubs and being able to play and support the different clubs at same time is a bonus.
* Knowing that club inventories will be displayed is a plus. I prefer to buy discs from clubs instead of at retail.

Full disclosure. I classify myself as intermediate and I am in the camp that pays in more than I take out. If I started turning a profit on tournaments, my criteria might change
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby gregwil2 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:51 am

I know when I went to my first tournament (Holly Daze '11) the first thing they asked was what division I wanted to be in. My response was "Division?...uhhh, I don't know there were divisions". That was why I started to collect the stats to see where people finished to try to figure out what division I belonged in. That along with Ted providing his stats became the River City Ratings. I was hoping that maybe new people could look at the scores from tournaments to somewhat understand what division the belong in.

I know some people have too much pride or don't like to get generally called a bagger so they probably play in a division they really don't belong. Others just don't know that they are playing well and should really be in the upper division. I hope that the ratings will eventually be used as at least a recommendation to what division you should be in or provide a lowest division you "qualify" to sign up for.

One idea I had would be to have a true Novice/Beginner division that seems to be rarely if ever offered. This would be for new people that would be maybe half the price (maybe $10) of the normal just to get people out, but have no payouts. Then give everyone a voucher that plays no matter how you finish. You could also maybe have them only play one round and have them follow or caddy another division to learn more in the other round. I know when I first started I would have carried a bag for someone to learn some tips.

But to get back on subject, I think what brings me out to a tourney when I first started was getting free disc and the competition to maybe win vouchers for more discs. Now I'm not that excited about a new disc unless it's maybe something that is new that I may want to experiment with (like with STL Open pack). Shirts are always good, though maybe more expensive, but I'm sure eventually I'll have too many of those also. For smaller local tourneys it really just depends on what course it's played on and what the weather is like. It doesn't take a lot to get me out. It is more fun when it is a new course or maybe a new layout or added holes to make it "different" that just going out and playing normally. Ohh, and if we had the food like Gary served up at the Willmore event, that would get me out more :)
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby Mike_R on Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:54 pm

Greg,

Your and Ted's River City Ratings are one of the greatest things to ever happen.

If a tournament announced that flights would be based on rating, that would be a major motivator to play. I know they tried this with the Ryder Cup format last year, but I don't know how much the concept has stuck with other tournaments.

I hate the head games that go along with choosing a flight. There is a lot of pressure to play up, even if there is little chance of competing.
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:59 am

I concur that I would like to see the River City Ratings used to flight almost all local tournaments/events.
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby Genn on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:41 am

Stubborn Puppet wrote:I concur that I would like to see the River City Ratings used to flight almost all local tournaments/events.

Andy has been using the River City Ratings for all St. Charles DGC events since late last year. I think his implementation of them works out great and should be a model of how to use them for STLDGC events as well.
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Re: ???? (how do you decide what tourneys to play)

Postby rondisc on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:03 pm

I believe that the more competitors in your division at any tournament you goto is important. Being Grandmaster I have to pick and choose. I also believe that going to the biggest tournaments gets you the opportunity to play against the best people in your division. I prefer competitive play. I like very well run tournaments. To know what you like you must get out of your confort zone to see what kind of courses you like to play. I will play a smaller tournament if I really like the golf course. Sometimes I go to camp out and play golf. Playing local tournaments is good if you have the money to spend but until you experience other golf...
"Such a long long time to be gone, and a short time to be there."
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