Par for each hole?

Bridgeton, MO

Par for each hole?

Postby Christastic on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:11 pm

Subject asks the question. What I've seen in the forum, on the posts at the course, and on the map are all different.
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:47 pm

I'd say this is the safest bet for accuracy.

Front 9: Par 35
Hole 1 (Par 3) - A 250 B 355 C 335
Hole 2 (Par 4) - A 525 B 520 C 585
Hole 3 (Par 4) - A 385 B 475 C 470
Hole 4 (Par 3) - A 190 B 235 C 280
Hole 5 (Par 5) - A ? B 500 C 575
Hole 6 (Par 3) - A 175 B 265 C 325
Hole 7 (Par 4) - A ? B 335 C 395
Hole 8 (Par 5) - A 340 B 500 C 515
Hole 9 (Par 4) - A 480 B 555 C 600

Back 9: Par 29
Hole 10 (Par 3) - A 275 B 335 C 350
Hole 11 (Par 4) - A 470 B 500 C 600
Hole 12 (Par 3) - A 210 B 220 C 265
Hole 13 (Par 4) - A 655 B 685 C 730
Hole 14 (Par 3) - A 325 B 415 C ?
Hole 15 (Par 3) - A 215 B 255 C 315
Hole 16 (Par 3) - A 395 B 435 C 500
Hole 17 (Par 3) - A 225 B 260 C 295
Hole 18 (Par 3) - A 375 B ? C 444
Total Par 64

Don't trust what's scribbled on the posts at all. That's just people writing what they think it should be... and it usually has more to do with how they're playing on that day than anything quantifiable.
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby irwinje on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:43 pm

Daniel,
I would (respectfully) disagree. The question of par comes up a lot on the course. I think a lot of people believe every hole has to be birdie-able, which I disagree with. Some holes are near impossible to birdie, so realistically, you're just shooting for a par. That said, you're competing with other golfers so par is relative to your competition. In relation to course/round ratings we need to establish a constant to judge on. In my opinion, 60 is a fair par for standard setup at Bridgeton. Make no mistake, this is a difficult course to shoot well at. But that doesn't mean we should inflate par to make the AM's feel better about their round.

1:3
2:3
3:4
4:3
5:4 -> C placement is probably a 5
6:3
7:4
8:4
9:4
Front: 32
10:3
11:3
12:3
13:4
14:3
15:3
16:3
17:3
18:3
Back: 28

Total:60
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Well, right back at you... I copied and pasted those distances and pars directly from your post here: http://stlouisdiscgolfclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=1858 which claims that they are the official pars and distances... so there :P

Nevertheless, your new set does sound more realistic.
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby schimmy on Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:15 pm

i do not agree with the mentality that some holes should be near impossible to birdie. if a hole is near impossible to birdie then the par is incorrect. if the hole is very easy to birdie then the hole is probably a poorly designed hole.

also i think this course has too drastic of changes between the different tees and pin locations to mandate just one par for each hole.

if i had to give a generic par for each hole here is my estimate.

1:3
2:4
3:4
4:3
5:4
6:3
7:4
8:5
9:4
Front: 34
10:3
11:4
12:3
13:5
14:3
15:3
16:4
17:3
18:4
Back: 32

Total:66



irwinje wrote:Daniel,
I would (respectfully) disagree. The question of par comes up a lot on the course. I think a lot of people believe every hole has to be birdie-able, which I disagree with. Some holes are near impossible to birdie, so realistically, you're just shooting for a par. That said, you're competing with other golfers so par is relative to your competition. In relation to course/round ratings we need to establish a constant to judge on. In my opinion, 60 is a fair par for standard setup at Bridgeton. Make no mistake, this is a difficult course to shoot well at. But that doesn't mean we should inflate par to make the AM's feel better about their round.

1:3
2:3
3:4
4:3
5:4 -> C placement is probably a 5
6:3
7:4
8:4
9:4
Front: 32
10:3
11:3
12:3
13:4
14:3
15:3
16:3
17:3
18:3
Back: 28

Total:60
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby Christastic on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:11 pm

Three posts, with three different pars. For now I'll just stick to what the map tells me until there is an official number.
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby irwinje on Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:47 pm

Stubborn Puppet wrote:Well, right back at you... I copied and pasted those distances and pars directly from your post here: http://stlouisdiscgolfclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=1858 which claims that they are the official pars and distances... so there :P

Nevertheless, your new set does sound more realistic.


I think that old post is what was anticipated at the time of installation. Now that the course has been in the ground a while and numerous rounds have been played, the updated numbers I posted above seem more realistic to me. It's also worth noting that the pars we're discussing are from the reds.

schimmy wrote:i do not agree with the mentality that some holes should be near impossible to birdie. if a hole is near impossible to birdie then the par is incorrect. if the hole is very easy to birdie then the hole is probably a poorly designed hole.


schimmy,
Consider the following holes in regards to the par/birdie conversation. Hole 2 is not a hard 3 if you get a descent drive and upshot, since its wide open. However, it is nearly impossible to 2 unless you get lucky & hit a field ace. Because its not a difficult 3, I wouldn't really call it a par 4. Hole 3 on the other hand is a much more difficult 3 since there are so many obstacles between the box & pin. So, I would call that a par 4. Then you have Hole 4, which (in A) is a pretty easy 2. But, I wouldn't say that is a poorly designed hole, would you?
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby bean928 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:55 am

#1. 3. #2. 4. #3. 4. #5. 5. #6. 3. #7. 3.
#8. 4. #9. 4. Front total. 33.
#10. 3. #11. 4. #12. 3. #13. 5. #14. 3. #15. 3.
#16 . 3. #17. 3. #18. 4. Back total. 31. Total 64
Seven and 16 might be fours but I think they should be threes least from reds.
I personal think anything over 500 ft should be par fours atleast bc im guessing the average drive is somewhere between 250 and 350.however There is a lot more than distance that should determine par. I also dont believe that just cause you cant reach it in one that it should A par four. There are too many inbetween holes in disc golf that still 100 to 150 away after a drive which all the pros can reach that just require a little upshot. So I dont think those should be fours. I think if it requires two great shots to get to the basket like hole two then yes it should be a four no doubt. But par will always be an arguement bc there is no fine lines. Plus with disc advancement courses have no chance.
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby schimmy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:47 am

irwinje,

i guess i should have stated this earlier, when i think of the red tees. i think of red level (850-900 rated) players playing the course. therefore the pars i gave are for red level players playing from the red tees.

Hole 2 is an easy 3 for us from the red tee, but for players rated 850-900 that is not an easy 3. they do not have the power and/or the putting to get it done in 3.

Hole 3 we agree is a par 4.

Hole 4 is a par 3, but once again for red level players this not an auto birdie. they still have to hit the gap off the tee and make the putt.


Here is the pdga rough guidelines for par.
http://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
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Re: Par for each hole?

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:54 am

Sounds like a good new discussion is forming here. Would you folks like to have this split into a new general topic called "Determining Par"?
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