Discussion about STLDGC Event pricing.

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Discussion about STLDGC Event pricing.

Postby irwinje on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:35 am

Stubborn Puppet here:
After several requests, the board has decided to create this topic and to merge into it all of the posts from the topic on The Inaugural City of St. Louis Open at Willmore Park. This was done to ensure that this conversation gets the attention it deserves and so that the topic created for signing up for the event remains focused on that.

This is a VERY important subject, so we DO want you to continue to debate and make suggestions for how future events, tournaments and fundraisers should be priced to ensure the best attendance and to best serve the St. Louis Disc Golf players.

What begins below is a post stemming off of the topic about the Inaugural City of St. Louis Open at Willmore Park as to why the entry fee is/was $30.



Ok, I'll ask
$30 entry fee
+ $10 for CTP's
$3 for non-members

What happened to the days where you paid $20 for 2 rounds and that included lunch and CTP's? Ok, so you want to raise a little extra money to pay for the installation of Sioux and Wilmore, the extra $10 for CTP's should cover that. You could charge the standard fee and ask for additional donations if you want to raise additional money? Or have games where you throw off for a basket or something.
But charging $30 for a (non-sanctioned) local event is a rip off to me, even if I do get (another) free putter that I don't need. I realize this is an inaugural event that you expect/know will fill, but I don't think gouging people is cool. Especially if we are getting lunch sponsors, etc. I'd like to see a break down of what the entry fee is for.
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby discdoh on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:57 am

I understand your concerns. Here is the breakdown:

$20 - Entry Fee
$5 - Commemorative Disc
$5 - Lunch (provided by outside vendor)
$30 Total

The $5 commemorative disc is a fundraiser item. The $10 CTP Extravaganza is a fundraiser item. The $5 lunch is going to be provided by an outside vendor - this will include sodas, Schlafly beer, and other drinks. We are not trying to gouge anyone and I am sorry that you feel that way. If you don't want to participate in the CTPs, you don't have to. And, yes, there will be additional opportunities to donate even more cash at the lunch break via some side games. This is a fundraiser tournament after all...

If we still provided lunch and CTPs for the $20 entry fee, we would have a very hard time raising any money whatsoever. After we get done installing the 36 new holes this year, we have some other projects that will need even more baskets, so our work is never really done.
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby irwinje on Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:13 am

So, how is the $20 broken out?
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby discdoh on Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:31 pm

irwinje wrote:So, how is the $20 broken out?


$15 to payout
$5 to the club ($2 general, $2 course, $1 ACE POOL)
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1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby jeffthrow6892 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:10 am

Okay, count me in-- Jeff Wulf- Pro Masters

Now, my two cents.......maybe us Jeff's think alike, but I'm not thrilled with the entry fee, either. An RCF flight where the fee is more than $20 ??? Since this is a fundraiser, I personally would have had no problems with there not being ANY payout, & keeping the entry fee at the usual $ 20. It is what it is, I guess......again, that's just my opinion........
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:21 am

Somewhere in that calculation we are also buying trophies for all division winners. It really is a conundrum when it comes to whether to payout or lower the entry fee... If you lower the fee but don't payout, there are a lot of people who won't come because they don't pay unless they have a shot at getting a return on their investment. Others are still willing to pay because it is fun and they like that the money is actually going to support a cause. "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't".

Also, there's inflation. The STLDGC hasn't raised its membership fees or merch prices (in fact some of those have gone down a lot) at all in the last 10(ish) years, despite the fact that the cost of everything has gone up about 30% since then. That has to come from somewhere and we have to carefully weigh the options for where. Fortunately, in an economic time that has managed to cripple and defunct many other clubs around the country and has driven others towards totally pay-to-play models for their courses, the STLDGC has been fortunate to have folks working hard to keep our membership numbers up to help offset it. This year, it doesn't look like we'll get close to the same number of members we had last year... and so on.

Do not read this as an excuse or dismissal of your very excellent points about the pricing. What you've said has, indeed, been listened to and will be used to help make more informed and, hopefully, palatable decisions on future events of this nature. I promise. Thank you.
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1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby Richard~Cheese on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:29 pm

Hasn't the club already had four yes "4" fundraisers out at Willmore over the last year with temp baskets. So instead of calling this the 1st Willmore Open should just call it 5th Willmore fundraiser. If the club wants to raise entry fees probably shouldn't do it in the middle of the year makes you look greedy or shifty. Maybe wait till the '13 club championships for that after all thats when the new golf year starts. And just charge a one time fee 30$ for a membership while keeping the tourney fees at 20$. It's a lot easier to get a 20$ bill out of the ATM than a 30$bill. ;o
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby Lazerface on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:09 pm

Not sure about all the gripe on the entry fee. All breakdowns asside, I usually pay $20, and this is a fundraiser, so it's $30..... and there are payouts. It seems reasonable when you look at it that way. I once played a round of ball golf for $95 with a cart. No lunch was provided and the booze was for sure not free.
Yes, I get the difference between paying a profit driven business and a non-profit club, but I do trust our volunteers have only 1 interest in mind - THE SUPPORT AND EXPANSION OF STL D-GOLF. Hints the recent developments of BRIDGETON/DUNEGANT/SIOUX/WILLMORE!!!!!!!!!..............$30 buck pay all day!!

I will be a Holly Hills native in NOV and am really excited about a little Willmore/JB home course change up. I will also be gaining a considerable amount of weight from eating at the delicious Pint Size Bakery.

Big thanks to Rob and Matt for all the hard work out there. I'm sure the course looks great!

You can add Jim Misuraca to OPEN please.
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1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby irwinje on Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:00 pm

jeffthrow6892 wrote:Now, my two cents.......maybe us Jeff's think alike, but I'm not thrilled with the entry fee, either. An RCF flight where the fee is more than $20 ??? Since this is a fundraiser, I personally would have had no problems with there not being ANY payout, & keeping the entry fee at the usual $ 20. It is what it is, I guess......again, that's just my opinion........


I completely agree with Jeff on this. If its a tournament, lets call it a tournament and have a payout. if it is a fundraiser, lets call it what it is, do away with the payout and gear the whole event towards fundraising. If people want a payout, there is always the option to throw an extra $5 down for super-pro. That way everyone gets what they want and you're not penalizing everyone for the wants of a few

Stubborn Puppet wrote:Somewhere in that calculation we are also buying trophies for all division winners. It really is a conundrum when it comes to whether to payout or lower the entry fee... If you lower the fee but don't payout, there are a lot of people who won't come because they don't pay unless they have a shot at getting a return on their investment. Others are still willing to pay because it is fun and they like that the money is actually going to support a cause. "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't".

Also, there's inflation. The STLDGC hasn't raised its membership fees or merch prices (in fact some of those have gone down a lot) at all in the last 10(ish) years, despite the fact that the cost of everything has gone up about 30% since then. That has to come from somewhere and we have to carefully weigh the options for where. Fortunately, in an economic time that has managed to cripple and defunct many other clubs around the country and has driven others towards totally pay-to-play models for their courses, the STLDGC has been fortunate to have folks working hard to keep our membership numbers up to help offset it. This year, it doesn't look like we'll get close to the same number of members we had last year... and so on.

Do not read this as an excuse or dismissal of your very excellent points about the pricing. What you've said has, indeed, been listened to and will be used to help make more informed and, hopefully, palatable decisions on future events of this nature. I promise. Thank you.


Daniel, I appreciate all the work you do for the club. Volunteering is a thankless job and comes with a lot of challenges, like these posts. That said, I don't think you have the historical frame of reference that you're attempting to speak from.
Trophies: Are not that expensive. With 90 participants, it costs less than .50 per person at the event to have numerous trophies made and could be handled as a donation if sponsorship parameters are the same way they used to be
Payout: As I've already mentioned, you can offer the best of both worlds by offering the standard buy-in without traditional payout and adding a super-pro side pot for those who "have" to win something to play an event.
Inflation: You are right, but we're not talking about consumable products the necessity of buying raw materials, paying employees, etc. We're talking about an intangible membership that is really a donation to support a local club. And, while membership has not gone up in a long time, the price of merchandise has (at least it did in 2010). As far as membership is concerned though, I would gladly pay $30/year if it came with more perks. as well as pay to play courses.
Beer: I have always been against adding cost of beer to an entry fee, but understand you can't sell beer, especially in the park. Again, past sponsorship parameters provided for free beers, which increased the value proposition of the club when it came to signing up members and charging for events.
Membership Numbers: I think the board needs to look at this and ask themselves if it is a product of the economy or a result of the club offerings and event procedures.

My point is that events like this could offer the best of both worlds with a little better planning. As for the discs, I don't care to have a commemorative disc (especially another putter) But, I know a lot of people do want them. So, instead of allocating $5 of the entry fee to that and making people take them, You should sell them as part of the club merch for $10/each and double your profits. Offering a super-pro reduces entry fee and still give people a payout, etc. It seems like gouging because you're charging more for an event you know will sell out, kind of like a Cards v. Cubs game or when the Blackhawks come to town...
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Re: 1st Annual City of St. Louis Open - Willmore Park - 8/17

Postby irwinje on Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:07 pm

I should add that I understand, as well as anyone, the concept of being damned if you do and damned if you don't. You'll never please everyone so you have to do what is best for the largest group of people.
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