The March C-Tiers 2012 - 2 PDGA Events - 3/24 & 3/25

[raymandisc]

Hi All,

Thanks to all who are keeping the C tiers still alive after all these years. If the weather is good she'll fill up quickly. A suggestion would be to post the people who already signed up to draw interest from people. If someone is thinking of coming and sees no body is signed up, it doesn't look good. I know at least one person signed up because I did. Just a suggestion.

[raymandisc]

Thanks for updating the pdga.com site showing who is registered.

[discdoh]

Here is the Endicott layout for the tournament, courtesy of Tim Finan and Tim Wiegard. It looks like a nice mix that should keep the competition nice and tight!

Here is the Sioux Passage layout for the tournament, courtesy of Francis and Chris Albanese. Bring some Advil, as you will probably need to pop a few ibuprofens in between rounds to make it through the day! Sore feet don't fail me now!

___________________________

[discdoh]

Just got word that Dan Fritz will be taking care of the meal plan for both days. He has been asking for an opportunity to show off his skills, so I figured what better opportunity than a 2-Day DG Extravaganza! I'm sure he is up to the task, but he better plan on having some medium-well done fingers by the end of the weekend...hours slaving over the coals will do that for certain! He told me to inform everyone tht he will have a couple of different options and price ranges. He will offer $3 and $5 plates. He will let me know what the menu is going to be next week, once we get a better idea of what kind of turnout to expect. Leave the cooking to us, it makes things that much easier...

[dehaas]

it's been a few weeks since i've been out to endicott. are the pins in those locations currently?

[discdoh]

No, but they should be soon. Tim just texted me today with the layout, so it should be in the near future.

[Lazerface]

Just played the Endi set up and Im gonna have to throw out my opinion. This is nothing against Tim because he is constantly working to improve Endi and moves the set up around quite a bit, which I really appreciate, cause its my home course. With that said, Id like to see a few holes stretched out, and the set up didnt seem pdga tourney worthy - almost, but not quite. 7 and 12 are in c, which is a must for any tourney at Endi IMO. What I didnt like in particular was 6 in a, 16 in a, and 18 in a. As I write this post I realize that it is a good set up and Im probably just being winey right now. Its just that those particular holes are money in the c. When people review Endicott the only complaint is often the fact that you dont get to air out anything. I understand Endi is a technical course themed by tight lines and elevation, but 16 and 18 are duece or die right now, and there is plenty of those on the front (1, 3, 5, 6, and 8). Duece or die may not be the best way to describe those, cause those birdies dont come easy, but you know what I mean. The bottom line is that pdga events should have a championship set up and it falls a little short. Many people will disagree with me, but I think I have the traveling players best interest in mind, and we want these out of towners to keep on coming. Since I don't do any of the work putting this thing together my opinion may be insignificant, but take it how you want to rcf.

Jim M

[discdoh]

Jim,

In Tim's defense, I told him to make sure to include some A pin positions. My feelings on this are based on pre-registrations and last year's turnout. So far, there is only 1 Pro player registered (Ray Vuichard in Masters), and last year we only had a total of 11 Pros at Sioux Passage (6 Open & 5 Master) and 19 Pros at Jefferson Barracks (12 Open & 7 Masters). On the other side of the coin, the Ams have been steadily filling in the pre-registrations since we opened up pre-registration, and last year we had 60 Ams at Jefferson Barracks and 47 Ams at Sioux Passage. To me, this is a clear indication that this event needs to focus on the Am side of things. I understand that someone, such as yourself, that has a long arm might be a bit disappointed when all of the holes aren't maxed out...it is taking away one of your advantages over the rest of the field. In reality, however, mixing up the layout to include some extra "deuce or die" holes, as you put it, just serves to tighten up the competition amongst everyone of all relative distance capabilities. Trust me, I understand where you are coming from, but I am not sure that your observations take a TDs point of view into consideration. For a PDGA C-Tier, the TD needs to accommodate every division, not just the Pros and Advanced players, particulary when the numbers tell you exactly which divisions are supporting the event. This style of course layout has started to become much more prevalent at PDGA events throughout the country, so you are certainly not the first person to take exception to shortening a course up a bit.

I will pass your feelings on to Tim. Maybe we will discuss breaking up the short finish (16 & 18) a bit. I wouldn't expect any major changes, however. IMO, the course layout looks like a good challenge where you won't be able to let your guard down (or you might be able to make a late comeback).

[irwinje]

I have to agree with Jim. I'm not proposing that you move everything to "C" but I would like to see some more technical shots included and less "A" placements. I'd (personally) move
6 to B
14 to C
16 to B
18 to C
Those few moves would make this course a lot more difficult/technical and make the competition much greater. You would have to fight for every birdie because you don't know what is coming up, thus the "duece or die" philosophy. Again, this is my opinion, but I think if people are paying for an event than we should showcase Endicott's technical side.
We have ample opportunity to air shots out at Sioux, Endicott should offer more technical shots that you have to throw well to score well.

On a side note, I think the "player's pack" should include an option for the tourney stamp disc or a $10 voucher so people can use it towards whatever disc they want from the intentory.
This serves 2 purposes
1) Give the players (paid participants) the disc they WANT
2) Increased revenue generation since very few discs are able to be bought at $10 and they will have to put more money into getting the disc that they really want.

[discdoh]

I just talked with Tim, and he said that he has no problem moving things if the general consensus is that the course layout needs some tweaking. Once again, things will not be getting maxed out by any means. The tweaks that Jeff proposes seem pretty logical:

6A to 6B - only adds 50 ft and places a bigger premium on the placement/shot-shaping of your drive. It also kind of takes the fence line out of play.
14A to 14C - takes away the potential deuce for the long arms (relatively speaking). This hole is a well earned 3 for most golfers, so there probably isn't any point in letting ol' Jim pick up a birdie on everyone with his 406" arm!
16A to 16B - it adds 90 ft but the total D is still less than 300 ft. Takes away a "deuce or die". This is a much more visually appealing pin location anyway. Position A does kind of make it seem like you are getting cheated out of a good hole design.
18A to 18C - completely changes the complexion of this hole. I like Tim's idea for a deuce opportunity on the "finishing" hole. I do, however, also like the idea of bringing the walking path/"water hazard" into play for one hole as well. I could go either way on this one.