MARCH C-TIERS???

[Lazerface]

I was just wondering if the club has discussed the C-Tiers in March yet. I love Endi and Sioux. Have you guys thought about changing it up or combining them and having a b-tier? I was just wondering what the plan was. We also need to advertise the C-tier they had in Alton last year cause it was sweet. I wish we could drop some of the club tourneys and have some more PDGA events. This of course would require a larger core of volunteers, and god knows I'm not going to help out, but I will certainly play in them and bitch and moan about stuff I don't like.

[mkane]

B-tiers would be nice, I am working on it, the other clubs are a big help, for volunteering helping out and they don't complain when things don't go their way.
We plan on holding more PDGA events and will try to do so as soon as possible, just to hear you whine .

Hang in there Jimmy, I am trying to pull the trigger on the Bluebird Series, where you could actually be the state champ of Missouri Disc Golf, that would be about 4-6 more tourneys, no PDGA fees.

Look to see cash added at the Ryder cup qualifiers.

And of course I will have napkins for you to wipe away your tears

In short Jimmy, this year March will bring 2 C-tiers 3-26 and 3-27
Sioux and JB
No Endi this year.

[rfdiscer32]

It is a bummer that not far away Columbia has 3 courses and just as many PDGA events as St. Louis. The Stl has some amazing courses, many tournies, and not enough PDGA events to prove it. There is great players in the region and we should be showcasing that talent. LSDiscs will throw a 1 day C-Tier in a heartbeat, so that shouldn't be the problem. We know attendance won't be a problem.
Just my 2 cents

[magic]

Look to see cash added at the Ryder cup qualifiers.

Just curious as to where this added cash would be coming from?

[mkane]

The Cash added is a result of profits realized from merchandise sales, and from profits generated by large turnouts.
I have been arguing for this cash added for a long time, the board has concerns that questions like this will arise and complicate things. Probably correct, but if we are making money then I believe that money should be given back in the form of extra cash and killer CTP packages for the tourneys.
We will try it for a while if it doesn't keep attendance high then we won't have the cash to do it. But for now I do.

If we are going to go back to the money issue, then you might want to check with the "where's the money" thread, maybe that will help curious members understand that we are here to make money to make new courses and maintain the ones we have. There are processes to follow to make the plans a reality and sometimes those processes are painful and time consuming, but still if we hold big successful tourneys then we will get there that much sooner.

[magic]

maybe that will help curious members understand that we are here to make money to make new courses and maintain the ones we have.

That is what the goal of the club should be. It shouldn't be to add money to events where not all members can play. I was never able to add money to an event yet didn't have much of a problem with good turnouts. You have a well-run event and you will get your numbers without adding cash. If a TD for a single event wants to go out of their way to raise money then that is fine. When you are adding RCF funds to a club event then I feel as though you are taking money which should be going to course improvements. And no matter how you look at where the money is coming from, in a roundabout way you could say it is coming from membership fees.

[irwinje]

Andy's comparison is not exactly apples to apples. There are a number of things that are differnt. In fact, money wasn't added to the pot, but there have been a number of tournaments that did have added beer, food, ctps, prizes, games, etc. I understand some of that was through sponsorship and free, but not all of it.

Now, I'm not going to take anything away from Andy, because he does run a hell of a tournament. But, that is not the type of tournament atmosphere that I am looking for as a player. I would prefer to bring my own lunch and have all the money that goes towards beer, food, ctps, prizes, games, etc. added to the payout.
St. Charles never had issues with tournament attendance because a majority (not all) of DGers from that area are more interested in the atmosphere at a tournament rather than the competition.

Some people are more interested in winning individually than spreading the wealth to the whole group with food, beer, etc. I know that sounds selfish, but you deserve to get paid for your effort and talent if you spend your Saturday (& $20) and beat 50 other golfers in my opinion.

As soon as the tournament is over, I'll grab a beer and join the drum circle with everyone else for a nice session of kum-bye-ya. But when we're in "tournament mode" I prefer to focus on my game because I'm not interested in spending $20 to hang out with my buddies and play sub-par golf (I can do that anytime - for free)

There is, and probably always will be, a difference between golfers that are in it for fun and golfers that are in it for competition. I prefer a competitive format to a drum circle format, but that is me and I don't expect everyone to share my opinion. The club needs to address both groups equally and fairly.

[mkane]

Andy and Jeff you have hit the nail on the head, I agree with you Magic about the money staying with the club to improve and build courses. But I beleive that investing money means bigger payouts, simply because people get excited about being able to win stuff, and when you can invest 5 or 10 bucks to win an additional 100 or so, in addition to the regular payout, it is my kind of deal, and I would make an effort to play in that tourney. Plus keep in mind RCF is the biggest club in the region so we should have the best payouts. That is just the added pressure I put on Chris, Greg, and myself to be able to payout killer and not use existing club money, just what we raise at the tourneys and what we get from sponsors wonderful donations.

[magic]

I will agree that we aren’t comparing apples to apples. What Jeff is talking about and what Mark is talking about are 2 different things. Jeff just wants to eliminate the food, beer (which if it’s donated I don’t see the problem), CTP’s, extra games, etc. and just have all entry fees used strictly for payout. I’m perfectly OK with that. It’s not the way I’d run an event, but doesn’t mean there isn’t a need or desire for it. Mark is talking about actually taking club funds and adding it on top of entry fees which I’m not OK with.

I’m somewhat confused though about the difference between a “competitive” and “fun” event. What makes an event competitive is having a lot of players there to compete against, hence the word compete in competitive. I don’t care what kind of event it is though if you aren’t having fun you wouldn’t play. I don’t think many people would play this game at all if you weren’t having fun doing so. And if the players aren’t having fun and they don’t play at all then you won’t have the number of participants to make it competitive. I suppose with some of the tantrums, cuss words and bags being kicked maybe not everyone is having fun!

There just isn’t any reason to say one event is competitive and the other kind is fun. All events should be both. The only difference is one kind of event takes some money out of entry fees for extras and the other kind uses all entry fees strictly for payout. I’d just prefer a few bucks be taken out of my entry fee for a few extras, Jeff and others may not. That’s fine. I think as long as you know what to expect ahead of time is all that matters. The last RCF event I did play was the Crusade. Not knowing what to expect I did bring my own lunch. Turns out that the LAKER crew did a heck of a job with the food and they did so at a great price. No problem, I ate the lunch I brought a different day. I’m hoping to play again this year and I guess I’m expecting or at least hoping for the same quality of food and won’t be bringing lunch. It really is all about running consistent quality events so you know what to expect.

As I said though I’m against adding additional club money on top of the entry fees. Why are only certain events given extra money? What division gets the extra money? If we are the biggest club in the region then it should be no problem to get good turnouts without adding money. Honestly though I think if you added $5 or $500 nobody would ever know. Event payouts are never posted for anyone to see, so no telling what was added. That’s nothing against the RCF since I never see any clubs ever post event payouts other then some PDGA events. I’ve never understood why, but I suppose that’s just the way it is.

Mark, I’ll leave it at that, so there is no reason to discuss it any further. I do appreciate those that do volunteer their time and as I’ve said before if you don’t like the way the club does things you don’t have to join.

One final thing Jeff. I did look at some numbers from some recent Quail events. This is only a quick look going from the top of my head, but I counted at the Ridge Runner Open 25 out of 71 participants lived in St. Charles County. At the Halloween Glow 30 out of 68 participants lived in St. Charles County. I’m sure these numbers aren’t exact, but basically less then half of the participants at these events came form other areas. I just wanted to point out that the large turnouts were due to players from everywhere. It’s not like we have something in the drinking water out here that makes us want to join a drum circle for a session of kum-bye-ya! It sound like many people like a good drum session! Or maybe it’s that people simply want a good quality event that they know what to expect ahead of time, they know it will run smoothly, they know the event will start on time, they know the results along with payouts will be posted in a timely manner, they know that if food is provided a minimal amount of money will be taken from the entry fee and it will be more then worth it, they basically want to know ahead of time that the $20 they spent for a day of golf was well worth it.

[magic]

Mark, one final thing that I meant to post and then I promise I'll drop it. It seems to change all of the time, but last I heard is that $2 from the entry fee is given back to the course/club that ran the event and $2 of the entry fee is taken out for the RCF. If you are going to add money to an event why not just eliminate the $2 the RCF is taking out of the entry fees. Let's say there are 50 participants which is $100 going back to the RCF. If you had planned on adding $100 to the event what's the point? Isn't it all pretty much the same thing? You are going to take money from the entry fees to go towards the RCF and then you just add it back into the payout. It just doesn't make much sense to me.