Wheres the money?

[ShaneC]

I would like to know where the money is comming from for these two new courses? Is it club money? I don't want to be negitive about new places to play but..........................why are all these new places going in in St. Louis county............why cant we get at least one in St. Charles? I have heard that St. Peters gave a green light to a course out there but they wont pay for it. All we have to do is get the baskets and they will let us build one. I am tired of this side of the river not getting anything new while 2 more get built out there, If it is club money being spent to build Forest Park and Bridgeton then I have to object to money we spend (those of us on this side of the river) to join a club that spends very little money out here. I would be willing to bet I am not the only one too!

Am I way off base here?

[emptv]

Disc Up Shane,
No, I do not believe you are off base here, just unapprised. I will tell you what I know.
I cannot answer your question about where the money is coming from. I only have touched lightly on the Forest Park venture and that is because the course layout that the Traveling LAKERS set up and played years ago was in the vicinity that is being discussed for a possible disc golf course. The LAKERS are disc golf course junkies and we will play almost anywhere within a 3 hours drive, a 3 hours drive (though somehow, we don’t get the honor and fun of having you play with us much anymore, what’s up with that anyway). The LAKERS have not had the benefit of going to Bridgeton and learning anything yet, but we plan on going there this Sunday for the nooner.
Is it club money? For a second time, I have no definitive answer but I would bet your paycheck that the club is paying in some way. If not $$$, then maybe in hardware, manual labor, rent, preservation, & improvements. Just conjecture on my part, which carries no weight.
Why are all these new places going in, in St. Louis County? I would surmise that population base could have a part of this, more disc golfers in St. Louis City/County and therefore more disc golfers to get the ball rolling. In St. Charles County we don’t seem to have as many natives getting things moving, with the administration, so the rest of us can help out with the development of new courses. Or maybe it is just dumb luck of knowing someone in the right place with the city.
Why can’t we get at least one in St. Charles? This has been done, it is Lindenwood. Yes, you should be a student or alumni to play. This is just one more raison d'être to play with the LAKERS, or call me to play because I fit in those parameters. On a somewhat ironic note, it is kind of anomalous that I am involved with Forest Park while I live in St. Charles Co., (Lake Saint Louis) and Don the Legend is involved with Bridgeton while he lives in Lincoln Co., (Moscow Mills). After thinking about it that way, maybe the population base theory is a crock.
I have heard nothing about Saint Peters getting a course until now. That would be great news because I heard the one at 370 Park will not be going in now.
Finally, of course you have the right to object about how the money is being spent. Whether or not your objections will make any variation, time will tell. Another option would be to firm up those aforementioned Saint Peters plans with the city, approach the club with details of what the city has said, and see what kind of co-operation you get from the club. Back in the days of getting Sioux some baskets, we borrowed some, thanks Bob W., then had raffles, auctions, 50/50’s, and money raising tournaments. As we got the money to buy some baskets, we planted those and Bob got his back. It was not to terribly long before we had 18 baskets. It would be great if the club could get 18 baskets in reserve, so that we could do this for each new course. Then the club would have a 1 time investment in baskets and all disc golfers who helped get the new baskets would actually be a small sponsor in our disc golf courses.
I know this has been a very long reply, but I wanted to let you know all that I know about what is going on.

[irwinje]

As you know, I am no longer involved. But, I can tell you that there are a few things that have to happen for a new course to go in (anywhere)
1) The area we want to put the course has to want a course there
2) There has to be some sort of agreement in regards to grass cutting, trash cans, pavilion or pavilion rentals and the ability to close the course for leagues, tournaments
3) The RCF is a not for profit volunteer organization so there also has to be some sort of financial commitment/obligation from the park, city, county or area that the course is going into to share in the financial obligation associated with installation of a new course.

I would love to see new courses anywhere (including St. Charles Co.) but from what you mentioned about St. Peters not wanting to share in financial responsibility of a course. So, for the time being that is not the best location for a new course.
As volunteer organization the club has to make sure they are being fiscally responsible as we do not want another situation like Unger. Unger appeared (on the surface) to be a perfect solution for all involved, but it obviously turned out much different than we planned. I know it seems to take forever for ranythign to happen, but sometimes time is the hardest thing to deal with in reagrds to any change

[TCBROWN]

Why can’t we get at least one in St. Charles? This has been done, it is Lindenwood.

I can say, as someone who was in on the planning of the course at Lindenwood that the flyers had little to nothing to do with the course at Lindenwood. Now since the course has been put in, the flyers have tried to reach out to Lindenwood and establish a relationship with the University but to no avail. Lindenwood maintains that the course was put in for the students and that is their right as a private university (As to the playability of the course see my other posts on the forum). But the RCF's involvement in the course at Lindenwood is not what we are talking about; we are talking about where is the money for St. Charles County. Where is the money that could be going in to installing new courses in St. Charles County? Money, which would help the sport to grow in St. Charles County (more members equals more money for which ever club had the members). Let’s face it what new disc golf wants to drive into St. Charles County to play. Not many. So how can we expect the sport to grow in St. Charles County if the club is not willing to put the money into St. Charles to build more courses? Quail is over run and something needs to be done to alleviate the traffic on the course.

As to the population argument:

It is very obvious that St. Louis County has a much larger population than St. Charles County. Roughly 3 times larger (I looked it up). But there are over 10 more courses in St. Louis County than in St. Charles County. That is a vast difference. And there are I believe 3 more proposed courses for the St. Louis county (I may be wrong about that number). Don't get me wrong, I love seeing new disc golf courses go in and I am in no way, shape or form trying to discourage the installation of new courses but, with that being said, something seems messed when a county of over 300,000 people that only has 1 course. Something needs to be done about this.

T.C. Brown
I’m not a junkie, I’m a disc golf enthusiast

I would love to hear feeb back on this.

[emptv]

Disc up,
It is not always about just the money. As Jeff pointed out there are many things besides $$$.
You have made some very valid points. Now what everyone needs to do is the next step. The comments have been stated, now act on them! Don't just sit back and complain how it is not, offer suggestions on how to change it for the better. Then get up and start acting on it, if everyone wait for someone else to start talks with the communities, then it will never get started. Anyone can write complaints and not give solutions, but very few people can offer solutions to their own complaints. Even fewer will get motivated to act on their own statements, if we don't get involved, how can we expect anyone else to act on the suggestions?

[TCBROWN]

I 100% agree there are other factors besides money and I am not trying to pretend that I know everything about the rcf or what goes into installing a course.

I know in St. Charles there are people who are willing and ready to work for a change (myself being on of them). I have asked several times to help improve the course we do have and do not get called. Only to play a round a Saturday morning to find some people doing work on the course. The same people I asked if they needed any help and some of the same people that complain that nobody comes out to work.

I guess what I'm getting at is something needs to change. I'm in.

T.C. Brown
I'm not a junkie, I'm a Disc Golf enthusiast.

[buckstlkr1]

You know I am torn at this point as to what to think about the RCF. I have seen a positive change in recent years as to how the club does business. However when it comes to St. Charles I am still scratching my head and I have grown more and more disappointed. In the past month it has gone from disappointment to down right disgust for how business is done in St. Charles.There is no communication from RCF representatives. It just seems responsibility is not part of being a St. Charles RCF rep, for god sakes our course captain was banned from the park. Now we here the St. Charles County Parks department will not be installing a new disc golf course in a neighboring park, which has been rumored for so long, because a of lack of funding. Of course I probably don't know the whole story because we never are kept informed. This leaves me to question if the RCF had stepped up and offered to assist the parks department would it have happened, would St. Charles have another PUBLIC disc golf course. Instead we have a course installed in a flood plain. As for "where's the money" I think we as members of the RCF are entitled to see where the money goes. In all the years I have been a member I have not seen a financial statement for the club. This web site should offer a page with a detailed explanation of the financial dealings of the club, as well as the minutes of meeting in which decisions are made. Communication goes a long way. I wonder if we are not informed by our RCF reps, do those same reps keep you the club informed?

[BBG]

I would be willing to built some baskets. I don't have drawings or sizes, but I have all of the tools to cut bend and weld some baskets. Maybe we can use them for temps or practice at proposed new courses. I'll make that offer but I can't afford pay all the hardware. I'm pretty sure we can do it for less than a Mach II or discather pro.

[ShaneC]

My understanding is this when it comes to anything new in St. Charles. Get the money or stuff needed to set up a course and then try to get approvel for a new course.....................does this make sence??? Lets get people to buy or build everything we need then get told no you cant build it. We have poeple from RCF spending money that the ridge runners or St. Charles disc club what ever you wanna call us have raised for Quail yet we have no say so in what gets done! I have said it many times................we can get lots of people to donate time and material to do anything that we wanna do but when we try to get something rolling or make changes we get shot down by someone thats not even on the board. I like the RCF dont get me wrong..the new board members have taken the club on a good path but that path does not lead to St. Charles county. I would like to see a demographic on how many members in the RCF are from St. Chuck. I have to agree with Bucky on the fact that we get no infor from RCF in anyway. We are kept in the dark by our new course captian. Dont get me all wrong on him he does a ton of work more than anyone else EVER has at quail the problem is he does it on his own and dont seem to care what anyone else thinks. Can anyone tell me why some holes have 5 placements when others have 1? This is a total waste of OUR money yes OUR money! I dont see why we cant have more say so in the changes that are going on at Quail. When we try to get info on who to talk to at the parks guess what...................we get nothing. At the cost of not makeing waves with RCF we (ridge runners, St. Charles club) keep our mouths shut and do not approch the parks. That is about to end!

Gary.its time to unleash the dogs!

[mkane]

Well it's good to see everyone is so excited about St. Charles County.
So who is the contact for Tee Signs?

So who is the contact for the new pin placements?

So who is the contact for the 6 new pins?

I believe those are the most pressing problems.

Money - The RCF will provide all the money you need, when you put it in writing and have an agreement in writing with the parks.

So who has been involved with parks negotiations?

If we don't an agreement, we cannot proceed. Or the stuff mentioned above happens.

We do work in the St. Louis County parks through an agreement, then we put the labor into it and the cost into it and then we get the park and pavillion rentals through out the year. Then at the beginning of the year we square up I think this year we had to pay a little money, to make things square.

RCF will be there for your big ticket items, "To promote disc golf, to install new courses, and maintain existing ones."

Tee Signs, Greg I believe that is you, RCF does not need to be involved with that, Gary should have plenty of cash to handle that.

Tee Placements - Sleeves again I think that Gary can handle that.

Cement and Blocks to repair the tee pads, get us a list, get us a quote, and get us a meeting with the parks so wecanl get the signatures needed to move forward, RCF will write the check right then and there.

Same with the new baskets, get the documentation: Parts lists, material quotes and costs, park board approval and bam here is your check.

Paying the RCF back, I will hold as many fundraising tourneys as needed for you to pay the money back that you need right now, or should I say make sure that you money level is where you can sustain your club.

RCF is here to help you, I am in the spring leaugue, every one has my number, 573-795-1187 Mark Kane.

Let's not forget it is about perspective guys, we have over 300 active members at RCF of which 80 percent are also St. Charles members, so we are supporting you. Your club just started and you have one course, lets finish it up so we can move on.

Shaniac, keep the fire burnin bro