Par for each hole?

Bridgeton, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby irwinje on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:32 am

schimmy wrote:irwinje,

i guess i should have stated this earlier, when i think of the red tees. i think of red level (850-900 rated) players playing the course. therefore the pars i gave are for red level players playing from the red tees.

Hole 2 is an easy 3 for us from the red tee, but for players rated 850-900 that is not an easy 3. they do not have the power and/or the putting to get it done in 3.

Hole 3 we agree is a par 4.

Hole 4 is a par 3, but once again for red level players this not an auto birdie. they still have to hit the gap off the tee and make the putt.


Here is the pdga rough guidelines for par.
http://www.pdga.com/documents/par-guidelines


That makes more sense if we're talking about players with lower ratings. I guess I've always looked at it from the Advanced/pro perspective. Whenever I play a new course, I'm usually trying to shoot Par the first time, so it is helpful to have accurate numbers. But, if I went to play Creve Coeur for the first time and shot the course par that is listed, I'd be pretty upset with that round. Par is very relative in my opinion. And, even if you have a set of guidelines to standardize it, you still can't really go by that all the time.

Daniel,
I suppose that's not a bad idea, but it is one of those discussions that will just go round and round because we all have opinions, and there is never really a solution. The standard will always be 54, then you have to determine which holes are deserving of that extra stroke to make it fair...
Time to get serious about having fun
User avatar
irwinje
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO.

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby Stubborn Puppet on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:01 am

There is still certainly a majority of this conversation that is very much related to Carrollton and the original posters question, so I'll leave what we have right here.

That being said, I'd like to encourage folks to continue the larger discussion about par and pars on our local courses in this new topic: http://stlouisdiscgolfclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2284

Thanks all!
User avatar
Stubborn Puppet
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:37 pm

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby jeffthrow6892 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:13 pm

Bean928 nailed the par numbers for each hole.....he has it perfect in my opinion. Some of the contested holes-- # 2 I think is a three & a half......therefor round it up to 4. Hole # 5 is one of the toughest holes on the course, but, it might be a 4 in A & B, but definitely a 5 in the C placement. I don't get how some people are calling hole # 8 a 5?? This hole is clearly a par 4.....

On the back, hole # 11 should be a 4. And hole # 13 is probably THE toughest hole on the course...definitely a par 5. Hole # 14 is a 3 to A, but I think a 4 to the long placement. And # 18, man, it's difficult to get a good, clean drive there....this should also be a par 4.....

Now......I'm off to go play a round out at Carrollton......... ;)
User avatar
jeffthrow6892
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Hazelwood, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby schimmy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:44 pm

hole 8 at carrollton is tricky to nail down a par. i think its a par 4 to the 'a' placement and a par 5 to the 'c' placement. I'm not even sure where the 'b' placement is.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
-- Hunter S. Thompson
schimmy
Birdie Poster
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:18 pm
Location: Valley Park, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby jeffthrow6892 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:55 am

schimmy wrote:hole 8 at carrollton is tricky to nail down a par. i think its a par 4 to the 'a' placement and a par 5 to the 'c' placement. I'm not even sure where the 'b' placement is.


I literally almost wonder if we're talking about the same hole here..... :lol: Anyway, the A placement is tucked just around the corner to the right, it's pretty 3-able. The other two placements, are about the same distance, one over to the left on a cliff & the other over to the right, again with a drop behind the basket. The basket is currently in the left spot, probably "B". Again, I think this is a 4, yesterday I threw a good drive, a good approach with a mid, made the putt, took a 3, which isn't the first time I've 3'd it. I just don't see how it could be a 5......
User avatar
jeffthrow6892
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Hazelwood, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby schimmy on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:09 am

Once again I will state that the pars I have listed are for red level players playing from the red tees.

According to the PDGA, you are a high white level player. Of course hole #8 does not seem like a par 5 for you, because it was not designed for someone of your skill level.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
-- Hunter S. Thompson
schimmy
Birdie Poster
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:18 pm
Location: Valley Park, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby gregwil2 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:44 am

I also was wondering where you were coming from Schim, but now that makes sense. I think Jeff should maybe think of the par from playing the Open Tees for each hole since he's probably at that level and see how the pars play out. Hole 8 is definitely a par 5 from Open/White/Blue tees for me, but from the Red is is a hard 3, but usually not more than a 4.
gregwil2
Birdie Poster
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:33 am

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby jeffthrow6892 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:38 pm

schimmy wrote:Once again I will state that the pars I have listed are for red level players playing from the red tees.

According to the PDGA, you are a high white level player. Of course hole #8 does not seem like a par 5 for you, because it was not designed for someone of your skill level.


Okay, I also am only talking about par from the red, or short tees. If we were talking about the back tee, then I could see this hole being a par 5. The only reason I mentioned what I shot on the hole was this......taking a 3 on the hole by playing it well perhaps felt like getting a birdie, certainly not an eagle....know what I mean?? And I'm not one of those guys who thinks of what par should be for a top level pro, I'm trying to come up with a par for an average player.....

I'm not quite up to speed on what a "red level player" is or a "white level", etc., etc. But it sounds weird to say when we are talking about a course like Carrollton, to say "it was not designed for someone of your skill level"?? Was this course only designed for Rec players?? Of course not, I have to think that maybe that wasn't worded quite the way you wanted that to come across......right??

Anyway, when trying to come up with a par for each hole, I don't think it should be geared towards a certain skill level.......you have to come up with an average, somehow......
User avatar
jeffthrow6892
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Hazelwood, MO

Re: Par for each hole?

Postby irwinje on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:17 pm

This discussion had me thinking, so I went out and played Carrolton last night. I had a couple good bounces and a couple poor bounces.

Hole:1C-2
Hole: 2A-4
Hole: 3B-4
Hole: 4A-3
Hole: 5B-3
Hole: 6C-3
Hole: 7A-3
Hole: 8B-4
Hole: 9A-4
Front: 30

Hole: 10B-2
Hole: 11C-4
Hole: 12A-3
Hole: 13C-4
Hole: 14A-3
Hole: 15B-3
Hole: 16C-3
Hole: 17C-(4)
Hole: 18C-4
Back: 30
Total: 60

This was one of my better singles rounds at that course. AMs are, by nature, inconsistent and my score fluctuates from 60-67, but I think I could shoot in the high 50's if I really played well. Which further convinces me that par is probably in the high 50's or low 60s from the reds. Again, my opinion is that most Advanced players are "par" players, so par is designed for them, not Intermediates, as shimmy noted. If you look at most sanctioned tournament, most of the top Advanced players are on the cusp of pro level. The true Advanced players are the ones that are closer to being even for the whole event.
Time to get serious about having fun
User avatar
irwinje
Ace Poster
 
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO.

Previous

Return to Carrollton Park

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest