Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Forum to discuss the improvement of our St. Louis area disc golf courses

Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby forehand on Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:22 pm

gflap wrote:CC needs a total redesign to take advantage of the trees it does have. Also, it is boring because of it's length. The property has enough land for 27 to 36 holes. The most fun I've had at CC is when they change the league format for the shorter holes. Make CC fun for the other 95 % of the Disc golfers that can't throw > 350 feet.

CC does have enough land for more holes but are we able to use that land is the question? The short format is nice every once in awhile but the reason I go to CC is to throw some long shots.I feel we dont have enough long course's in the area.CC and Sioux are it.
Now as far as what to do at CC to fix these holes i guess depends on the funds the club has or what is available to us but I would suggest talking to some tree farms and checking if they would possible donate trees or give us some kind of a deal or maybe even the parks would pay half? I like the idea of bunkers inbetween holes 1and 2 but I also think thats way to much work to build and maintain.If I didnt think the casuals would tear them outta the ground,I would suggest ropeing up OB's like they do at the USDGC.
In the end,Maybe CC does need to be redesigned?
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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby REDARMY on Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:35 am

a (long) pro 18 and a (short) rec 9 a la centralia perhaps?
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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby raymandisc on Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:09 pm

I'm going with the premise we are not going to redesign the course. I'm sticking with "Improve what we have". I agree with Forehand on the holes he's talking about tweeking. My take is we add tree to make the holes better as described about. I don't think the down trees we've had lately dictates a total re-design. The disc golf game is going away from a par 54 mentality for several years now. It does not show any signs of reverting back to par 3 days. What I'm saying here is we make what we have better.

I'd really like to here from some of the other player's here.

See ya...
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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby gottagothrow on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:39 pm

I'm sure most folks have already mentioned this, or at least think it or know it. But I am going to say it anyway.

Having a course that is more than par 54 is becoming more common. In order to make a course more than par 54 does not mean we just make it long. One of my 1st times out at CC was quite an experience. The wind is the only thing that made it difficult. (ok, maybe aside from the fact that I can't throw over 340ish, and shorter back then too). Just making a course long and more than par 54 does not make it a good course.

Here is how my typical hole experience at CC was.

Throw drive. throw upshot, putt 5 ft into basket. Repeat. Throw drive, throw upshot, putt 5 ft into the basket. Repeat.

Not a lot of fun...

If your 1st shot needs to be placed for your 2nd shot, then a putt for birdie (or par), then THAT makes it a good hole.

Hence your tree placement idea... really comes into play. If we plant "fairways," then we can have a good hole. But of course, I don't think I am bringing anything new here. Sorry I wasted your time reading this book.

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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby raymandisc on Mon May 03, 2010 8:47 pm

I'm going to repost this so I don't repeat myself.

I'd like to start a post geared specifically to improving the golf holes. By this I mean what can be done to make a hole safer to other golfers and non-golfers, fairer (ie a fairway as apposed to an un-fairway) and lastly more challenging? This not the post for maintenance. We already have one for that.

Safety:

For holes where there is an option to throw toward or over a road could be avoided by planting a trees or bushes. Many holes were designed around existing trees, but then they were removed and now we have that option. This would make the holes safer to non-golfers and keep the discs from hitting cars. The other safety concern where you are throwing into other fairways. Maybe planting trees or bushes to deter from throwing into other fairways could help reduce the possibility of hitting other golfers. Again, most of these holes were not designed to allow for a shot over another fairway, but a tree gets removed and now we have that option. I agree having multiple ways to get to the hole is great, but not if makes the hole unsafe to others. You could always do a mando, but I'm not a big fan of them. Most the the casual golfers don't play them anyway, so you still have the safety issue.

Fairway:

A fairway is a difficult thing to define. But, basically you want to reward a good shot with a chance at a birdie. Holes where you throw in the fairway and hope you get lucky to get through the trees to me does not make for a good golf hole. Columbia Missouri's, Indian Hills to me has some of these types of holes. I would also like to see more defined fairways where if you get off the fairway, you are likely going to get a bogey. Holes where you can throw an errant drive and still easily get a par make for an average hole. A good hole to me not only rewards a good drive with a chance for a birdie, but also punishes a bad shot with a likely bogey.

Challenging Holes:

Once you have a safe hole with a fairway, then you can add the challenging. For example for longer holes like Creve Coeur you could add an OB area placed relatively close to the spot where you want to be to set you up for a birdie. The same could be done with the greens with bushes where if you aproach and go left of the basket you will not have a shot at a par. Many of our greens already have this, but like I mentioned earlier trees are removed and now the green is too easy. I don't think you want to make is so challenging that casual golfers don't enjoy the course. But, I feel we could make our courses more challenging without making it too hard for the casuals.

Final Thoughts:

My understanding any changes at the County Courses go through the Course Captains working with the Club's Officers and the County Parks people. Oh, also some of the officers met with the County Parks recently and they mentioned, we can put in trees.

Please post your ideas here and as always you can contact the officers or the course captains. Maybe we could have a Course Improvement post for all the County Courses.
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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby raymandisc on Mon May 03, 2010 8:58 pm

Ok, with that done let's talk about Rock Spring in Illinois. I just played it in the 2010 St. Louis Open. I didn't create a new topic because this is not our club, it's are friends on the east side "Chain Gang" and we could critique this all we want but it's not our club here.

I really like this course. Here is why. If you get off the fairway on many of the holes you get a 4. Also, the pins have what I call fast greens. There are many holes if you miss you go down the hill or go OB. You could agrue that some of the holes greens are so tough it's just luck if you on the green, down the hill OB or in the woods with no shot 40 feet from the basket. I'm not one of them. There are some tight holes, but I don't think it's so tight that it's just throw and get lucky.

We didn't play the mando pole on hole 3 but I'm pretty sure when I've played there they played the pole as a mando so you're not hyzer over the road and over peoples head teeing on 4.

Jeff and Bo and their crew did a great job on this one. Thanks guys...
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Re: Improving the Golf Holes at Our Local Courses

Postby gflap on Tue May 04, 2010 6:36 am

Exactly! Rockspring, in my opinion is the most fun course in the area because it is not overly long and every hole is different.
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