River City Flyers *Elections*

RCF & other STL-area Clubs' News, Q & A, and Conversation

Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby discdoh on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:56 am

First comment - Please stop the annoying e-mail thread. In the future, please CC or BCC your mass mailings. I'm sure somedbody's boss had a comment on that absolute BS. Leave Rick Markum alone and he will go away.

Next - Why are the Ridge Runners up in arms? Most of them are members already (Thanks). By the way, its not $20x100. It's more like $6x100. The club doesn't make crap on the memberships. Hell, they practically lose money if they have to ship the membership package to someone. By calling yourself a Ridge Runner, that means you are member of an organization. Organizations promote their goals. If you have 100+ people to work with, get some positive input and output coordinated. Things will happen. If the RCF hasn't met your expectations, don't hold it against them. We are all just trying to enhance the sport that we love.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:05 am

Co exist are you kidding me??????? RCF cant even co exist with itself. Ridge runners like being part of RCF for the most part and we dont mind the 20 dollar fee to be members but really what does it for us???? Gets me a fag tag errr bag tag! Like i said if you guys want us to remain members lets see something done for the parks over here. Need I remind you theres alot of us that come over there to play in rcf events so dont think that we dont care about the club.

rember the old saying theres strenght in numbers????????? With us in the RCF you have more numbers which is more money in the culb fund but yet we dont see it. Do you really think people give a crap about having merchandise at events? Some do because we cant spend our fake money anywhere else. Speaking of fake money...........just another way for the club to milk us for more coin in my book.

To those that want our votes................you need a plan that covers all parks just just where you play.

We like what Chris K has to say and has a great running platform so far he gonna get the votes but even Chris needs to address the St. Charles disc golf players.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby discdoh on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:36 am

ShaneC,

I'm sure everyone would like to hear your solution.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby irwinje on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:57 am

Part of the issue here is that people (in St. Charles) hang out at the course talking about what is wrong with the RCF and ask questions like, Why doesn't that money get used on this side of the river. The answer is easy, contractual obligation. I'm sure Andy has not mentioned this to anyone, otherwise I think most people would understand and move forward with a St. Charles Club.
The RCF is the St. Louis Disc Golf Club and we have a contract with the St. Louis County Parks, which include Sioux Passage, Creve Coeur, Endicott, Unger and Jefferson Barracks. The contract states that we can use the courses, but we have to reserve the shelter/course for leagues, tournaments, and etc. i.e.: Times that we, as a club, are monopolizing the course. The course costs $75 to rent/close and the shelter is another $40. This is $115 each time we have an event. This year, there are 33 events on the RCF schedule, most of them are at 1 of the 5 courses listed above, covered in our contract with the county. The contract states a mutually beneficial situation for both our club and the park's dept.
It states, instead of spending $115 on rentals, take the $115 that you would spend on the rental and put that money back into the course. This lets us use the course, which means traffic in their parks, thus generating revenue for local business like restraints and gas stations. What does the club get out of it? Instead of paying a $3,000-$4,000 bill every year to the St. Louis County Parks, they allow us to put that amount of money back into the courses. This not only beautifies their/our parks, it allows us to provide a better course/playing experience for local disc golfers by using tha tmoney to install new benches, retaining walls, concrete tee pads, etc.
This makes it a win-win situation for both the St. Louis Co. Parks Dept and the River City Flyers. The RCF does not currently have an agreement like this with the St. Charles Parks Dept, which is why the money generated by the RCF stays on this side of the river. When I first got involved, this did not seem like a good way to "grow our sport" so, I invited some young and eager disc golfers from St. Charles to RCF meetings. They showed interest at first, but personal conflicts forced them to stop attending. Since then, I have invited Andy, as course captain, to come to meetings to "give St. Charles a voice." Which he has done. Unfortunately, I feel that has not done a lot to help the situation in St. Charles so we, the RCF board, voted to give $600 and free discs to Quail Ridge to help facilitate course improvements.
Again, unfortunately, we do not have an agreement with the St. Charles Co Parks Dept., which is why you don’t see more money coming across the river and being spent at Quail. I’m sure you’ve never heard is spelled out like that, which all I can do is apologize for since we’ve explained this to Andy for nearly a year.
Andy has drafted a contract for the St. Charles Parks Dept and submitted it. However, as with most government agencies, there is a lot of red tape that is has to pass through before it is approved. Part of the reason I think St. Charles has not started a club of their own is because Andy doesn’t want to do it and I don’t think anyone else wants to either. But if you’re going to have a club you need a leader.
As far as paying AMs in merch being another way to milk you for money, that is ridiculous to the point of being offensive. The prices the club has for merch is lower than any local shop or online dealer. Additionally, that is how it is done all over the country, amateurs are never paid out in cash. I didn’t make the rules, I just followed them.
It seems the problem most people have is that they expect this (volunteer) club to be run like a fortune 500 company. Unfortunately, we all have wives, family, jobs, hobbies and we all want a little time to play the game we work so hard to promote. The more volunteers we have the better off our club will be. Unfortunately, most people don’t have time or don’t want the responsibility. Trust me, no one understands as well and I do. You put your heart and soul into something, work your ass off, and for what? So a bunch of ungrateful people (that put nothing into making this sport better) complain at you and point out your mistakes and what you should have done.
Well, my advice to you sir, is to get off your high horse, quit being a back seat driver and take the reigns to make this sport better. What? You don’t have time, interest, responsibility? Well I wouldn’t expect to hear anything form you, but Thank You!
All volunteers should be thanked for what they do. Feel free to start wherever you want, here is a list
Francis Albanese
Chris Lang
Mark Dudenhoeffer
Ben, Morgan, Joe Hart
Andy Majeski
Steve Kleiber
Jerry Barklage
Bob Waidmann
Ron Robertson
Bob Shirley
Greg D’oh
Jeff Ligon
Bo Toebe
Jay Lewis
Time to get serious about having fun
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby HITMAN on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:16 pm

ShaneC wrote:RCF cant even co exist with itself
Huh?
ShaneC wrote: We have eric trying to run for a possition when hes been kicked out of how many leagues and banned from the parks????? really?????? didnt this guy punch someone out in Quail ridge? Hasnt he been caught cheating a few times???? Really?????
It seems Eric is a good oppurtunity to get another voice from the St. Charles area on the board But you dont have to vote for him. You also dont have to knock the guy. I guess he has stopped complaining and is trying to actually do something.
irwinje wrote: You already have a great name, St. Charles Ridge Runners.
This is not a good name for a club as it is specific to one course.
I'd like to know what St. Charles is going to do for itself. Its time for a couple of people to step up and make it a reality. Maybe Eric could run for president of a St. Charles Club if this RCF thing doesnt work out.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby magic on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:59 pm

Why does my name always get dragged into this stuff? And even worse, why do I always feel the need to respond!!!

I will have to agree and disagree with some of the comments posted by Shane and Jeff. Also some of the comments posted by Jeff were not entirely factual. For the time being though I am just going to have to bite my toungue and not respond...
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:00 pm

Thank you Irwinje for posting that info.........most of us didnt know that info i am more educated now!
Club plastic is not any cheaper then buying online when you consider the cost of playing in a event. I dont play for the cash or the prizes. I play for fun and being around people that have fun. Anyone that knows me knows I promote our sport.
No you wont find my name on the lst of people that volunteer list but you will find me picking up trash no matter where I play. I also clean up all the crap the kids like to write on the boards out at the parks, I carry sand paper with me to sand off the the "billy bob was here" stuff. At every RCF event i offer help in any I can and get told naaa its ok we got it. Is that a huge thing to do naaa not really but I do do it.

Ridge runners is not a club its just the term I choose to use for the St. Charles players.

What are the biggest complaints about events............they never and i mean never start on time and nobody out there can argue that point. I never said I had a problem with the way RCF runs anything except the fact that we dont see the help out here that goes on out there and as Irwinje wrote i see why now it is like that.
How about having some meetings in say Earth city so its easy for everyone to go the meetings? That seems like it would be a good middle of the area place then maybe more non board members could show up.
How about posting the notes from the meetings so everybody can see what goes on.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:09 pm

How about posting where the money goes we put into the club and why we put it there.
If I rember right the last RCF event at quail the RCf didnt even resurve a shelter.........boy that looks good for us in the parks eyes dont it.
Many of us out here take the time to keep the park in shape like trimming weeds and cleaning the pads. We take the time to make paths to walk on when it muddy. Many of us take the time to help the new people that are starting to play..........like giving away many disc to people, showing them the course. Now I am sure this goes on out there too in many ways but dont think that we dont do it either.
Our biggest complaint was no love from the club.........hell whens the last time any board members even came out here to intoduce them selves?
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby ShaneC on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:18 pm

by the way us St. Charles players are working with the wentzville parks dept. to get a new place to play and the "ridge runners" will be playing in their event comming up. How about some of you guys comming over so we can show good numbers.
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Re: River City Flyers *Elections*

Postby irwinje on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:19 pm

We had a board postion of secretary, and when the old one stepped down (a few years ago) he was never replaced, until a month or 2 ago. A course captain stepped up to take meeting minutes. However, they have since decided not to put their name in the running for the upcoming election.
So there is a position out there that should be responsible for this task, but it is not being performed at this time. The best reason I've heard for why is, "I can't talk, think and write a tthe same time..." I know, it seemed a little silly to me too, but that is what we're faced with. Again, we're a volunteer organization, not a fortune 500 company.
Additionally, typically the board meetings have not been "open to the public." Because, before I was involved with the club, they had multiple problems with that. If they are left open, it open the possibility of a "mob mentality" to take over. It was decided, before I was involved, that the meetings would be more productive if they were limited to board members and course captains. For all the members out there that have ideas of how to improve the club/course/events we have this message board so we can get member's opinions and discuss them in the board meetings.
I can appreciate freedom of speech. In this regard though freedom of speech seems like an excuse to complain about the small group of people that are actually volunteering their time. I understand a lot fo people feel like they are "in the dark matters. To be honest, our board is not a well oiled machine that never fails. We're a group of humans that suceed and fail, just like everyone else.
By my estimation, disc golfers have very high expectations and are very quick to complain/argue when they do not agree. Lets be honest, we're all anti-conformist (otherwise we'd probably play ball golf) When you have a group of anti-conformists, and a smaller group of them try to organize a group, we create an oximoron that constantly contradicts itself. The best thing we can do is accept that it will never be perfect and thank the people that take time out of their lives to try and make the situation better.
Thank your volunteers by not complaining!
Time to get serious about having fun
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