Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Lemay/Mehlville, MO

Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby gottagothrow on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:47 pm

These are the numbers I came up with.
Tee-signs and scorecards matched distances at JB.

Hole 1,
A) 243ft with a drop of 21ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 255ft)
B) 312ft with a drop of 22ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 306ft)
C) 399ft with a drop of 25ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 416ft)
D) 486ft with a drop of 20ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 2,
A) 264ft with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 273f)
B) 354ft with a drop of 12ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 380ft)
C) 408ft with a drop of 7ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 427ft)
D) 369ft with a drop of 6ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 3,

1st set of trees 129 feet away with a gap of 15ft

A) 312ft with a drop of 11ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 327ft)
B) 336ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 350ft)
C) 369ft with a Rise of 6ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 401ft)
D) 366ft with a Rise of 6ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 4,

Big tree (about halfway to "A") is 96ft

A) 156ft with a Rise of 3ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 185ft)
B) 261ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
C) 405ft with a drop of 3ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 450ft)
D) 339ft with a drop of 0ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 5,

Gap (Tunnel that all shots usually have to pass through)
is 129ft

A) 345ft with a drop of 26ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 350ft)
B) 396ft with a drop of 24ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 366ft)
C) 429ft with a drop of 23ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 420ft)
D) None yet

Hole 6,

Big tree before "A" is 219 feet away
Big tree after "A" is 279ft

A) 267ft with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 265ft)
B) 288ft with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
C) 339ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 360ft)
D) None yet

Hole 7,

Big tree by "A" is 192 feet away
Big tree right before "C" is 291ft

A) 210ft with a drop of 7ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 215ft)
B) 285ft with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 280ft)
C) 324ft with a drop of 17ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 340ft)
D) None yet

Hole 8,

New tree on right is 171ft away
Big tree on left side on hill is 219ft away
Big Tree before "A" (usual aim spot for me and others) is 333ft away

A) 378ft with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 385ft)
B) 513ft with a rise of 18ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 525ft)
C) 531ft with a rise of 28ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 540ft)
D) 570ft with a rise of 18ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 9,

Big Tree on Right is 42ft away
1st Big Tree Straight is 222ft away
1st Big Tree (to right of above) is 246ft away
2nd Big Tree (to right of above) 282ft away
Tree with "V" on hill is 270ft away
Big Tree by "B" is 330ft away

A) 315ft with a rise of 16ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 325ft)
B) 336ft with a rise of 23ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
C) 339ft with a rise of 18ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 355ft)
D) None yet

Hole 10,
A) 268ft with a drop of 36ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
B) 372ft with a drop of 27ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 395ft)
C) 450ft with a drop of 24ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 475ft)
D) None yet

Hole 11,

Set of trees off tee to shoot through, 148ft with a gap of 36ft
Large tree straight is 300ft and tree behind "A" is 370ft

A) 349ft with a drop of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 345ft)
B) ?ft with a drop of ?ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 370ft)
C) 422ft with a drop of 44ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 400ft)
D) 459ft with a drop of 33ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 12,

A) 256ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 253ft)
B) 298ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 297ft)
C) 271ft with a drop of 6ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 315ft)
D) None yet

Hole 13,

Set of trees off tee to shoot through, 190ft with a gap of 22ft

A) 264ft with a drop of 15ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 290ft)
B) 325ft with a drop of 16ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 325ft)
C) 371ft with a drop of 19ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 360ft)
D) None yet

Hole 14,

A) 253ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 250ft)
B) 296ft with a drop of 8ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 293ft)
C) 325ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
D) None yet

Hole 15,

Big tree before "A" is 159ft away

A) 208ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 206ft)
B) 245ft with a rise of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 245ft)
C) 258ft with a rise of 6ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 261ft)
D) None yet

Hole 16,

Gap entering woods is 84 ft away and only 19 ft wide.
Big tree in middle of woods is 200 ft away.

A) 253ft with a rise of 10ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 255ft)
B) 270ft with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 295ft)
C) 374ft with a rise of 18ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
D) None yet

Hole 17,

Tree in woods on left is 162ft away,
Tree in front of "A" is 255ft away.

A) 295ft with a rise of 9ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 305ft)
B) 373ft with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 333ft but diff. placement i think)
C) 551ft with a rise of 29ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 537ft)
D) 637ft with a rise of 29ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)
E) 488ft with a rise of 21ft (not on scorecard or tee sign, this is the original original
hole 11 placement, This one is located close to the woods and close to the parking lot
by the apartments, IE further around the corner to the right.)

Hole 18,

Tree on right side is 104ft away.
"V" tree to the left and before "A" is 175

A) 232ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
B) 266ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
C) 382ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
D) None yet
Last edited by gottagothrow on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby Strange on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:31 am

Now that is some detailed info. Maybe I should print it out, laminate it & hook it to my bag

Nice job
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby gottagothrow on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

Thanks strange.

I am going to try and find a nice way of printing it and posting on the Bulletin board.
DD
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby dehaas on Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:24 am

That's very cool stuff. Just a question, and it's more me being curious on how you calculated everything and not being picky. Say you have a 400ft hole that's 20ft uphill, would it be difficult to figure out a "plays like" distance, basically taking the elevation changes up or down into account? Seems like a quick and not so accurate way would be to just make a right triangle with the two measurements you've already taken and figure out the third. I guess I'm just curious as to how accurate that would be, or if there's a better way to figure it out.
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby gottagothrow on Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:08 am

dehaas wrote:That's very cool stuff. Just a question, and it's more me being curious on how you calculated everything and not being picky. Say you have a 400ft hole that's 20ft uphill, would it be difficult to figure out a "plays like" distance, basically taking the elevation changes up or down into account? Seems like a quick and not so accurate way would be to just make a right triangle with the two measurements you've already taken and figure out the third. I guess I'm just curious as to how accurate that would be, or if there's a better way to figure it out.

Very good question.

There are detailed charts and stats for Ball Golf on how elevation changes the "play-as" distance.
But I don't think anything has been done for Disc Golf.
I bet some Pros would be able to give you a better idea as to the play difference when elevation
is introduced.

My guesses are:
For 400 ft hole with 20 foot rise in elevation, it should play as if it was 450. Just a guess though.

Lower elevation plays completely different though.

I played a 750 ft hole out at Emerald Isle in Oceanside, CA on a ball golf course. It dropped
about 25-35 feet or so. I normally can only drive 340-380 (on a GOOD day). I threw within
about 100 feet of this hole. Slight tailwind, downhill, and I happen to choose the correct disc
with the right stability to handle the snap and disc speed. (This was my ONLY good drive this
day at Emerald Isle.)

Anyone else have ideas on play as distances?
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby discdoh on Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:18 pm

I just made up individual laminated signs (postcard size) for each hole. I will be attaching them to the tee-sign posts later today. I think it will make a nice addition until we get the permanent signs made up. It also got me thinking about the direction the new signage should be headed. I'm thinking digital photos or satellite imagery with loads of detailed info (i.e. various basket positions, important landmarks, etc.) should be a possibility. Maybe I'll come up with a prototype in the near future and see what people think.
Hoppy 2013!
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby fairweather_fan on Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:41 pm

gottagothrow wrote:
Anyone else have ideas on play as distances?


the PDGA advises using a 3 to 1 ratio to determine a hole's "effective distance". so, for the 400 foot hole that plays 20 feet uphill, you would multiply the elevation change by 3, and add it to the length- making it an "effective length" of 460. if the hole played down 20 feet, you would subtract for an "effective length" of 340. not saying it's right, wrong, or other- but that's how they suggest doing it.

here's a quote from the PDGA message board by chuck kennedy, who's apparently pretty influential when it comes to such things:

"...the effective length a player must throw has to account for the roughly 3-to-1 elevation differential which must be added or subtracted to the measured length to truly determine the equivalent throwing length."
aka 'teddy ballgame'
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Re: Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated)

Postby gottagothrow on Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:53 pm

Ya, Chuck is the "rater of the tossed arc." He is a pretty smart guy actually. He developed and ran the ratings system for the PDGA. He also was the man responsible of the US Mid Nationals held in St. Louis a few years ago.

Thanks for finding that. Didn't know that was out there.
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Measuring Hole Distances at JB (Updated...again)

Postby gottagothrow on Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:39 pm

I went out again on the front nine with the same accurate LRF as I did for the back.
These are way more accurate than the numbers I came up with the 1st time around.
Now, the reason the numbers are different on some of the holes, my measuring device
is much more accurate, plus it uses a different methodology as I did the 1st time around.
On the majority of the holes, I measured from Tee to myself (or helper), then from
myself (or helper) to the pin locations. This introduces errors and different "routes."
What this LRF does it measures from point "A" to "B" without using a "C."
This means it is a direct route and does not take into considering the intermediate position.

Bottom line is, with the exception of hole 5 placement "B," the distances are excellent.
Hole 5 "B" will play a bit longer due to having to go through the "gap" THEN turning right.
Where as the LRF measured the straight line distance from tee to pin.
Again, the front nine are the only ones that changed, the back didn't change.

Hole 1,
A) 252ft (was 243ft) with a drop of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 255ft)
B) 294ft (was 312ft) with a drop of 23ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 306ft)
C) 377ft (was 399ft) with a drop of 25ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 416ft)
D) 459ft (was 486ft) with a drop of 20ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 2,
A) 267ft (was 264ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 273f)
B) 352ft (was 354ft) with a drop of 10ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 380ft)
C) 356ft (was 408ft) with a drop of 10ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 427ft)
D) 356ft (was 369ft) with a drop of 10ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

I want to double check hole 2 C and D distances, that just doesn't seem right.


Hole 3,

1st set of trees 129 feet away with a gap of 15ft

A) 288ft (was 312ft) with a drop of 11ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 327ft)
B) 310ft (was 336ft) with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 350ft)
C) 344ft (was 369ft) with a Rise of 3ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 401ft)
D) 343ft (was 366ft) with a Rise of 6ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 4,

Big tree (about halfway to "A") is 96ft

A) 156ft (was 156ft) with a Rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 185ft)
B) 257ft (was 261ft) with a drop of 3ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
C) 393ft (was 405ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 450ft)
D) 323ft (was 339ft) with a drop of 0ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 5,

Gap (Tunnel that all shots usually have to pass through)
is 129ft

A) 340ft (was 345ft) with a drop of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 350ft)
B) 356ft (was 396ft) with a drop of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 366ft)
C) 427ft (was 429ft) with a drop of 15ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 420ft)
D) None yet

Hole 6,

Big tree before "A" is 219 feet away
Big tree after "A" is 279ft

A) 271ft (was 267ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 265ft)
B) 293ft (was 288ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
C) 343ft (was 339ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 360ft)
D) 338ft with a drop of 5ft (no sign or scorecard)

Hole 7,

Big tree by "A" is 192 feet away
Big tree right before "C" is 291ft

A) 213ft (was 210ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 215ft)
B) 288ft (was 285ft) with a drop of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 280ft)
C) 342ft (was 324ft) with a drop of 15ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 340ft)
D) None yet

Hole 8,

New tree on right is 171ft away
Big tree on left side on hill is 219ft away
Big Tree before "A" (usual aim spot for me and others) is 338ft away

A) 384ft (was 378ft) with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 385ft)
B) 516ft (was 513ft) with a rise of 18ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 525ft)
C) 535ft (was 531ft) with a rise of 25ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 540ft)
D) 576ft (was 570ft) with a drop of 10ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 9,

Big Tree on Right is 42ft away
1st Big Tree Straight is 222ft away
1st Big Tree (to right of above) is 246ft away
2nd Big Tree (to right of above) 282ft away
Tree with "V" on hill is 270ft away
Big Tree by "B" is 330ft away

A) 330ft (was 315ft) with a rise of 15ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 325ft)
B) 340ft (was 336ft) with a rise of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
C) 343ft (was 339ft) with a rise of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 355ft)
D) None yet

Hole 10,
A) 268ft with a drop of 36ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 300ft)
B) 372ft with a drop of 27ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 395ft)
C) 450ft with a drop of 24ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 475ft)
D) None yet

Hole 11,

Set of trees off tee to shoot through, 148ft with a gap of 36ft
Large tree straight is 300ft and tree behind "A" is 370ft

A) 349ft with a drop of 20ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 345ft)
B) ?ft with a drop of ?ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 370ft)
C) 422ft with a drop of 44ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 400ft)
D) 459ft with a drop of 33ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)

Hole 12,

A) 256ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 253ft)
B) 298ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 297ft)
C) 271ft with a drop of 6ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 315ft)
D) None yet

Hole 13,

Set of trees off tee to shoot through, 190ft with a gap of 22ft

A) 264ft with a drop of 15ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 290ft)
B) 325ft with a drop of 16ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 325ft)
C) 371ft with a drop of 19ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 360ft)
D) None yet

Hole 14,

A) 253ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 250ft)
B) 296ft with a drop of 8ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 293ft)
C) 325ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
D) None yet

Hole 15,

Big tree before "A" is 159ft away

A) 208ft with a drop of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 206ft)
B) 245ft with a rise of 5ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 245ft)
C) 258ft with a rise of 6ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 261ft)
D) None yet

Hole 16,

Gap entering woods is 84 ft away and only 19 ft wide.
Big tree in middle of woods is 200 ft away.

A) 253ft with a rise of 10ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 255ft)
B) 270ft with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 295ft)
C) 374ft with a rise of 18ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 330ft)
D) None yet

Hole 17,

Tree in woods on left is 162ft away,
Tree in front of "A" is 255ft away.

A) 295ft with a rise of 9ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 305ft)
B) 373ft with a rise of 13ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 333ft but diff. placement i think)
C) 551ft with a rise of 29ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says 537ft)
D) 637ft with a rise of 29ft (not on scorecard or tee sign)
E) 488ft with a rise of 21ft (not on scorecard or tee sign, this is the original original
hole 11 placement, This one is located close to the woods and close to the parking lot
by the apartments, IE further around the corner to the right.)

Hole 18,

Tree on right side is 104ft away.
"V" tree to the left and before "A" is 175

A) 232ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
B) 266ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
C) 382ft with a rise of 0ft (Scorecard & Tee sign says ft)
D) None yet
Remember, there is no disc.
http://stlouisdiscgolfclub.com/
Tag # 1 (in my imaginary world)
PDGA # 26478 rating 935
38.517136°N, 090.280311°W
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